Eastercon and diversity

[nanila]

lapswood was kind enough to send me a few photos he took at Eastercon last month. I thought this one made a nice illustration of some points that were made about PoCs and the (lack of) diversity at science fiction conventions.

This is from the panel I was on. Myself, the gentleman next to me and the man on the opposite end from me are all working scientists. The other man is the moderator - I'm not sure whether or not he is a scientist.



When I look at this picture, the first thing that pops into my head is the Sesame Street song: "One of these things is not like the others/One of these things just doesn't belong."

Visually, the thing that doesn't belong is me. And that makes me sad. What does it make you think?

Comments

[holyschist]

I wonder if you'd have better gender balance at a science panel at an Asian convention. I'm inclined to think so because I haven't observed the same focused funnelling of women into the arts and men into the sciences in the Asian cultures I'm familiar with as there is in the UK/US. But, y'know, anecdata.

Anecdotally, the first (so far only) con I went to, zixi and I went to a discussion about science and science fiction (a woman who I think was some kind of social scientist type collecting data for her thesis), and while the room was fairly gender-balanced, it was also a) very white (also true of the con overall, I think), and b) I think we were the only women in the room with science backgrounds and science jobs.

So yeah, I wonder. Although I think the connection between science and SF probably affects it also, and I'm not even sure I understand that in the US, so I wouldn't begin to speculate about other countries.

[qian]

I think we were the only women in the room with science backgrounds and science jobs.

It says something if the men are the ones who are mostly making money and gaining prestige from science, and the women are doing it as a hobby (reminds me a bit of the thing with how women are crafters and write fanfic for $0 and their work is devalued etc). I mean, I don't know if that's true, but it would be sad -- and unsurprising -- if it was!

Although I think the connection between science and SF probably affects it also

I don't understand what you mean by connection between science and SF -- whether there's any discrepancy between the numbers of women who read SF vs. the number of women who work in science or have a science background, d'you mean?

[holyschist]

It says something if the men are the ones who are mostly making money and gaining prestige from science, and the women are doing it as a hobby

Well, and at the time, my science job was a science education job, which is underpaid and largely women, sooo. I mean, a lot of male SF fans are not scientists or science background folks either, but I kind of wonder what the relative percentage is. I do vaguely recall that the (boring, not very good) science programming at that con was all men, but I may be misremembering since I nearly fell asleep and left in the middle of a couple presentations.

(The panel on writing fight scenes also showed some...uh...interesting gender dynamics, although I don't recall them now.)

I don't understand what you mean by connection between science and SF -- whether there's any discrepancy between the numbers of women who read SF vs. the number of women who work in science or have a science background, d'you mean?

Hmmm, let me see if I can remember what I was thinking at the time--I don't want to speak for zixi, but I like SF despite my science background, and pretty strongly prefer sociological/soft SF (most of the women in the group did, iirc). Most "hard" SF makes me giggle because I know too much about actual science to take most of it seriously. Most of what I consider legitimate hard SF in the sense of being rigorous is anthropological or linguistic SF, but neither are considered "hard sciences," so most people don't call that hard SF.

So I guess what I would wonder--and it might well vary by culture--is how SF and science and regarded as interests by the average person. Is liking science considered nerdy or within the normal range of hobbies/careers/interests? Is liking SF considered an ordinary interest or way out there weird? And also how SF is regarded by scientists in the culture--do other scientists look at you funny if you admit to reading SF, or do they all have shelves of it at home?

And I'm not entirely sure how that plays out in the US, so I have even less idea how it would play out elsewhere, but I suspect that might also intersect with gender in terms of panel composition, IDK.

If that makes ANY sense at all, which I'm not sure it does.

(I do kind of wonder if female scientists in Asian countries get the "Woah, you're a scientist? But math is so hard for women!" reaction all the time. My impression from test scores and so on is that there doesn't seem to be the same set of underlying societal assumptions about aptitude, but I obviously don't know.)

[qian]

So I guess what I would wonder--and it might well vary by culture--is how SF and science and regarded as interests by the average person. Is liking science considered nerdy or within the normal range of hobbies/careers/interests? Is liking SF considered an ordinary interest or way out there weird? And also how SF is regarded by scientists in the culture--do other scientists look at you funny if you admit to reading SF, or do they all have shelves of it at home?

Ah, that's really interesting! Thanks for explaining. It makes sense, and I also do not know the answers. Though speculating would make for a fun conversation!

I do kind of wonder if female scientists in Asian countries get the "Woah, you're a scientist? But math is so hard for women!" reaction all the time.

I don't think so, but am not scientist in Asian country so couldn't say for sure. But -- just from my experiences growing up -- I'd say the expectation that boys will outperform girls in the maths and hard sciences is less, hm, intense/pervasive? I think it must still be there because when I got to uni men still dominated in the engineering and sciences courses among my primarily-Asian friend groups. They just didn't outnumber the women AS much as they did among Westerners.

Of course, the additional layer of context is that many of the Asians I was friends with spoke English as a second language. Maths and engineering and subjects like that are seen as being easier for people who don't like writing essays, and most of e.g. the Mainland Chinese people I knew at uni were either mathematicians or engineers. So, y'know, I don't know what the gender balance in the maths and engineering fields are like in Mainland China, whether there's even more of a bias towards men.

[holyschist]

Of course, the additional layer of context is that many of the Asians I was friends with spoke English as a second language. Maths and engineering and subjects like that are seen as being easier for people who don't like writing essays, and most of e.g. the Mainland Chinese people I knew at uni were either mathematicians or engineers. So, y'know, I don't know what the gender balance in the maths and engineering fields are like in Mainland China, whether there's even more of a bias towards men.

*nods* You're talking about the UK? Because yeah, I would expect it to be different in more of an expat situation. It's pretty similar in the US.